EggXpert

I've got a problem with a Netgear WGR614v7 and have tried pretty much everything to fix it, hoping someone here can point out an area I've overlooked.

It's a basic wired/wireless router, and all local functions seem to work fine.  But when plugged into my ADSL modem (a Netgear DM111P) it can't seem to contact the outside world.  It gets an IP, gateway and DNS server etc from DHCP, but can't browse, ping or tracert to any external address (including the DNS).  My connection requires no login (not from the router anyway) but I've tried with and without entering my password, and even cloning the MAC, but nothing helps - same results, whether using Mac, Windows and Linux clients.

Switch back to my regular (D-Link) router and the connection works, as it does with other spare routers.  I've also tried the Netgear router on a relative's connection, and got same results.  I then took it back to the store for a replacement - but still get the same results with the new one!

 Have also tried to lodge a support request with Netgear.com site but no luck yet.

I bought this for a friend who lives a 2-hr drive from us so I'm just trying to verify it works before going out there.  Anyone got any ideas?

bmscott:

It gets an IP, gateway and DNS server etc from DHCP, but can't browse, ping or tracert to any external address (including the DNS).

The *IT* here is the Router ?

The DM111P want's to use the 192.168.0.x(1) network, it is HIGHLY likely that the Netgear Router wants to use the same IP address as *IT's* address.  If it is not using the eggxact same address in the last octet, but is using the same 'local network' address,  they cannot BOTH use that same IP network (that's called double-netting.)

You will need to assign a different network IP address for the Netgear Router....say   192.168.3.1

when you "save" that, your IP address will no longer be correct for the network, and you will need to "repair" your network connection to get a new DHCP lease for the new 192.168.3.x network.

Tallon41

[edit: CONFIRMED the WGR614 default IP address *IS* also 192.168.0.1 ]

[edit: Alternatively you COULD chage the IP address of the Modem instead...but ONE of them MUST be changed. DM111P manual PDF ]

> If it is not using the eggxact same address in the last octet,

> but is using the same 'local network' address,  they cannot BOTH use that same IP

 

What's this, product placement?  (heh)  

 

> You will need to assign a different network IP address for the Netgear Router....say   192.168.3.1

 

Yep, I tried that at one stage (been at this 2 weeks now) - just forgot to mention it in my post.  I tried changing it again tonight, just in case the mere fact of someone else suggesting it would make it work this time (yes, I'm about at that stage...) but no luck.  It doesn't want to work on the default address, nor on 192.168.3.0, nor on 192.168.11.11. 

 

I thought I was barking up the wrong tree anyway since the router received its DHCP-granted numbers from the modem OK, though.  It's a pain to access the modem's interface directly since it won't work through any router I've tried - you have to plug it in directly, which is risky unless you're using a LiveCD of some kind, but I should probably try that at some stage and see what it has to say.

 

I'd be perfectly happy to just return the router and try another brand entirely, but without knowing what the cause of this problem is, I won't necessarily be fixing it by doing that... I've checked with my I.T. colleagues at work, and they all say I should check the router log, but there IS no log on this model!   Thanks for your time -

bmscott:

> You will need to assign a different network IP address for the Netgear Router....say   192.168.3.1

  LOL....no, just shameless plugging for the Egg !

bmscott:

Yep, I tried that at one stage (been at this 2 weeks now) - just forgot to mention it in my post.  I tried changing it again tonight, just in case the mere fact of someone else suggesting it would make it work this time (yes, I'm about at that stage...) but no luck.  It doesn't want to work on the default address, nor on 192.168.3.0, nor on 192.168.11.11. 

192.168.3.0 ?!  YIKES!  That is an UNUSEABLE network address.  You cannot use an IP address that ends with Zeros.  Technically the books want for a Network address, one where the 8 bits that make-up the last octet, contain only 1's; (whether it is 1 or 11 or 111 or 1111...etc.)  In reality, any (except Zero,) will work, it just won't be as 'neat.'

bmscott:

I thought I was barking up the wrong tree anyway since the router received its DHCP-granted numbers from the modem OK, though.  It's a pain to access the modem's interface directly since it won't work through any router I've tried -

You're not supposed to try.  When attempting to configure a Modem with a web browser, you connect directly to it.  Many Modems cannot be configured in this manner, yours will, which is a good thing!

bmscott:

 you have to plug it in directly, which is risky unless you're using a LiveCD of some kind, but I should probably try that at some stage and see what it has to say.

?  If you're worried about a firewall, then turn-on the windows firewall, or disconnect the Phone cord(DSL,) or Coaxial(Cable,) from it for the short-time you will be configuring it.

bmscott:

...but without knowing what the cause of this problem is, ...

Unless you need a UserName/Password to log-into your Internet Service Provided account, I am confidant that this *IS* the problem (using the same network or IP address.)  This is evidenced by the fact that other MFRs equipment (which use different default IP and network adresses,) work fine when used.

your manual [if you didn't have one already] [ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/wgr614v7_ref_manual_20apr06.pdf  hyperlink isn't showing on the word manual as it is supposed to.]

What are the Internet port settings, on the "status" page.

What are the LAN port settings, on the "status" page.

What IP address is the modem set to presently ?  You will need to connect straight to it to find this out, (or if you never changed it, it's likely still the default 192.168.0.1 )

Tallon41

Tallon41:

192.168.3.0 ?!  YIKES!  That is an UNUSEABLE network address.  You cannot use an IP address that ends with Zeros.  Technically the books want for a Network address, one where the 8 bits that make-up the last octet, contain only 1's; (whether it is 1 or 11 or 111 or 1111...etc.)  In reality, any (except Zero,) will work, it just won't be as 'neat.'

 OK, I've since tried 192.168.0.10 (the same one my normal router uses) and 192.168.0.3 - still same results, though.

Tallon41:

bmscott:

 you have to plug it in directly, which is risky unless you're using a LiveCD of some kind, but I should probably try that at some stage and see what it has to say.

?  If you're worried about a firewall, then turn-on the windows firewall, or disconnect the Phone cord(DSL,) or Coaxial(Cable,) from it for the short-time you will be configuring it.

Got no "Windows firewall" - I use Ubuntu and OSX at home, have access to Win2k if need be.  I've relied on NAT for firewalling since dialup days and for one reason or another have been tinkering with the network setups on my Unix-related boxen enough that I don't trust them for a direct connection to the 'net.  So, a LiveCD is how I do it (and yes, the modem is using 192.168.0.1) 

Tallon41:

Unless you need a UserName/Password to log-into your Internet Service Provided account, I am confidant that this *IS* the problem (using the same network or IP address.)  This is evidenced by the fact that other MFRs equipment (which use different default IP and network adresses,) work fine when used. 

 [...]

What are the Internet port settings, on the "status" page.

What are the LAN port settings, on the "status" page.

Account Name
Hardware Version	V7
Firmware Version	V2.0.23_1.0.23
Internet Port
MAC Address	00:1B:2F:E2:85:91
IP Address	220.253.14.13
DHCP	DHCPClient
IP Subnet Mask	255.255.255.0
Domain Name Server	210.15.254.240
LAN Port
MAC Address	00:1B:2F:E2:85:90
IP Address	192.168.0.3
DHCP	ON
IP Subnet Mask	255.255.255.0

 

I changed the IP address a bit, but otherwise this is what it shows when hooked up to the modem and all lights are green.

Thanks very kindly for your time so far - I keep feeling like I'm on the edge of figuring this out, but it's a stubborn one...
 

bmscott:

 OK, I've since tried 192.168.0.10 (the same one my normal router uses) and 192.168.0.3 - still same results, though.

OK, but you are not paying attention.  Both of those addresses belong to the SAME NETWORK, and since the Modem uses the 192.168.0.x Network for it's configuration YOU CANNOT USE that network IP address.

Look at setp 3. in your manual [link provided in one of my above posts.] "setting up an internet connection"

3. Check the LAN IP address of your router, which is usually printed on a label on the bottom or
at the rear of the device. Note how the address is comprised of four numbers separated by
period characters. If necessary, change the LAN IP address of the modem so that the two leftmost
numbers of the address are the same as the two left-most numbers of the router’s LAN IP
address, and the third number in the modem’s address is different from the third number in the
router’s address. For example, if the router’s LAN IP address is the same as the modem’s
default address (192.168.0.1), change the LAN IP address of the modem to 192.168.1.1.

So once AGAIN.  You have two options.  Change the LAN IP Network address of your Router, or change the Modem's IP address. Note that the Subnet "masks" the "network" portion of an IP address....255.255.255.0  so the first 3 octets make-up the "network" portion of the address.  You MUST according to your manual, change the network address.  The above example shows 192.168.1.x as the new network address, but you could use 192.168.3.x   or  192.168.86.x   just NOT 192.168.0.x  (x=decimal number between 0-255)  If you DO change the Modem's IP address, make note of it, as you will need it if in the future you need to change something.

Since you have a router, you should turn-off the DHCP server in the Modem, (I believe that's step 4.)

You did not respond to this: "Unless you need a UserName/Password to log-into your Internet Service Provided account, ..." DO you have such a username login ?  If you plugg-in one of your other Routers that worked to power, then connect a PC and log into it, what Internet account type is shown ?  PPPoE  ?   on the set-up page there would be a username/password listed..... 

I notice the pic in your manual is for a PPP account that would have a Username/password login.....AND has a 1500MTU.  If you HAVE a PPP account, then the MTU needs to be 1492 or less.  This should also be changed in the Router.
 

Tallon41

Tallon41:

bmscott:

 OK, I've since tried 192.168.0.10 (the same one my normal router uses) and 192.168.0.3 - still same results, though.

OK, but you are not paying attention.  Both of those addresses belong to the SAME NETWORK, and since the Modem uses the 192.168.0.x Network for it's configuration YOU CANNOT USE that network IP address.

Look at setp 3. in your manual [link provided in one of my above posts.] "setting up an internet connection"

3. Check the LAN IP address of your router, [...]  For example, if the router’s LAN IP address is the same as the modem’s
default address (192.168.0.1), change the LAN IP address of the modem to 192.168.1.1.

It's quite possible I'm not fully getting you; my TCP/IP skills are about one step short of being truly useful.  But 192.168.1.1 was one of the first ones I tried with the Netgear - and I tried it again tonight - no difference.  And 192.168.0.10 is the one my usual D-Link router has been using OK, but it doesn't work for the Netgear.
 

Tallon41:

So once AGAIN.  You have two options.  Change the LAN IP Network address of your Router, or change the Modem's IP address.

[...]

Since you have a router, you should turn-off the DHCP server in the Modem, (I believe that's step 4.)

I hesitate to change anything like the IP on my modem (my wife needs our connection at unpredictable times for her job); but I did check the modem's DHCP setting, and it's both "on" and greyed out - can't change it?

Tallon41:

You did not respond to this: "Unless you need a UserName/Password to log-into your Internet Service Provided account, ..." DO you have such a username login ?  If you plugg-in one of your other Routers that worked to power, then connect a PC and log into it, what Internet account type is shown ?  PPPoE  ?   on the set-up page there would be a username/password listed.....

We do have a username/password which is entered into the modem's setup screen.  I use no uname/pw on any of the routers which DO work; in fact the router I'm using now has needed no changes across 3 DSL accounts (diff modems, cities, providers).  The account type is listed as "Dynamic IP", not PPPoE.   

Tallon41:

I notice the pic in your manual is for a PPP account that would have a Username/password login.....AND has a 1500MTU.  If you HAVE a PPP account, then the MTU needs to be 1492 or less.  This should also be changed in the Router.

The modem definitely shows an MTU of 1492; I'll take a second look at the router's setting.  The cut'n'paste from the router was simply the result of the auto-setup wizard; sometimes it detects static IP and other times Dynamic (possibly the DHCP server conflict? but why does DLink have no probs...)

I owe you a beverage of some sort... thanks!

bmscott:

The modem definitely shows an MTU of 1492; I'll take a second look at the router's setting.  The cut'n'paste from the router was simply the result of the auto-setup wizard; sometimes it detects static IP and other times Dynamic (possibly the DHCP server conflict? but why does DLink have no probs...)

Well, find out on the ASDL status page if it is PPPoE, or PPPoA.....and click that down-arrow and see what  options are available.  we could put it in bridge mode and bypass the Router.

Tallon41

edit:  It is interesting to note that According to the WGR614v7 manual.....

Appendix ATechnical Specifications
This appendix provides technical specifications for the 54 Mbps Wireless Router WGR614v7.
Network Protocol and Standards Compatibility
Data and Routing Protocols: TCP/IP, RIP-1, RIP-2, DHCP
PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE)  <----------------------------------------------------- There is no listing for PPPoA
Power Adapter
North America: 120V, 60 Hz, input
United Kingdom, Australia: 240V, 50 Hz, input
Europe: 230V, 50 Hz, input
Japan: 100V, 50/60 Hz, input
All regions (output): 12 V DC @ 1A output, 22W maximum
Physical Specifications
Dimensions: 28 x 175 x 119 mm (1.1 x 6.89 x 4.68 in.)
Weight: 0.3 kg (0.66 lb)
Environmental Specifications
Operating temperature: 0° to 40° C (32º to 104º F)
Operating humidity: 90% maximum relative humidity, noncondensing
Electromagnetic Emissions
Meets requirements of: FCC Part 15 Class B
VCCI Class B
EN 55 022 (CISPR 22), Class B
C-Tick N10947
MIC, Class B
Interface Specifications
LAN: 10BASE-T or 100BASE-Tx, RJ-45
WAN: 10BASE-T or 100BASE-Tx, RJ-45

 

Tallon41:

Well, find out on the ASDL status page if it is PPPoE, or PPPoA.....and click that down-arrow and see what  options are available.  we could put it in bridge mode and bypass the Router.

 I'd never heard of PPPoA - Google says it's something to do with ATM.  All the routers I've seen list Dynamic IP and PPPoE as the major options (alongside "Static IP"), and really I haven't dealt with any PPP directly since the SLIP/dialup days.  However, I do recall seeing "Bridge mode" on the modem (can't check now, am at work)... 

The DHCP server on my normal DLink router is most definitely enabled, though, so if both are on, and the modem is bridging - well, maybe the DLink just deals with the conflict better?  But the router config page shows the clients plugged into it, though, and when I changed the range of addresses it gives out (long ago, in an unrelated context) the client addresses changed, so I'm pretty sure my desktop computers are getting DHCP from the router and not the modem.

Talon41:

edit:  It is interesting to note that According to the WGR614v7 manual.....

Appendix A Technical Specifications
This appendix provides technical specifications for the 54 Mbps Wireless Router WGR614v7.
Network Protocol and Standards Compatibility
Data and Routing Protocols: TCP/IP, RIP-1, RIP-2, DHCP
PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE)  <----------------------------------------------------- There is no listing for PPPoA

 Should there be?  Wikipedia says it's mainly offered in New Zealand and Europe.

 Is there any reason to believe that if I switch to another brand/model of router, things will improve?  I don't understand why a Netgear router won't play nice with a Netgear modem.  The alternative would be, leave my friend's existing router (if any?) in place, turn off the WGR614's DHCP and just use it as a wireless bridge if possible.

 - B

bmscott:

The DHCP server on my normal DLink router is most definitely enabled, though, so if both are on, and the modem is bridging - well, maybe the DLink just deals with the conflict better?  But the router config page shows the clients plugged into it, though, and when I changed the range of addresses it gives out (long ago, in an unrelated context) the client addresses changed, so I'm pretty sure my desktop computers are getting DHCP from the router and not the modem.

When the Modem and Router are on different Networks, your Hosts WOULD be or they'd get no IP asignments. 

*IF* your Modem was in Bridge mode, then nothing would be done in the Modem, [and usually you lose the ability to log into it any more, until a 'reset'] any Username/password info required by the ISP would be entered into the Router instead.  In other words, the Modem just passes-off the signal to the Router, which is NOT currently what it is doing.  Your Modem is a Hybrid device, and not strictly just a Modem.  When in Briged Mode the Modem will lose the ability to monitor the connection, and the "internet" light will go dark regardless of actual connectivity, this is by design.

bmscott:

Should there be?

Aparently....your manual shows PPPoA as the connection type on the Status page....What does your Modem ASDL status page say ?  If your modem IS using PPPoA, then your Router does not appear to be able to handle that.

bmscott:

Wikipedia says it's mainly offered in New Zealand and Europe.

OK....and you are where?  Your modem is an ASDL2+ which is also used in those places, [and which is why there is a European Union statement of compliance at the front of your Modem's manual]

BTW *If* you are using PPPoA, then the MTU should be 1500...not 1492, and though I've read where 1478 is 'optimal' for it, I've never had any customer here in Calif. that had PPPoA.

Tallon41

Tallon41:

*IF* your Modem was in Bridge mode, then nothing would be done in the Modem, [and usually you lose the ability to log into it any more, until a 'reset'] any Username/password info required by the ISP would be entered into the Router instead.  In other words, the Modem just passes-off the signal to the Router, which is NOT currently what it is doing.  Your Modem is a Hybrid device, and not strictly just a Modem.  When in Briged Mode the Modem will lose the ability to monitor the connection, and the "internet" light will go dark regardless of actual connectivity, this is by design.

[...stuff deleted...]

Aparently....your manual shows PPPoA as the connection type on the Status page....What does your Modem ASDL status page say ?  If your modem IS using PPPoA, then your Router does not appear to be able to handle that.

 
OK, finally got a chance to get this info, but it still seems conflicting.  First, here's the text of the modem status page:

Modem Status
 
System Up Time     00:00:31:03
Account Name     -------
Firmware Version     3.29z
Boot Loader Version     1.0.37-0.6.8
ADSL Driver Version     A2pB021g.d19b
ADSL Port
MAC Address     02:1B:2F:21:F7:4E
IP Address     220.253.21.---
Network Type     RFC2684 Bridging
IP Subnet Mask     255.255.255.255
Gateway IP Address     203.17.101.80
Primary DNS server     210.15.254.240
Secondary DNS server     210.15.254.241
LAN Port
MAC Address     00:1B:2F:21:F7:4E
IP Address     192.168.0.1
DHCP     On
IP Subnet Mask     255.255.255.0
Modem
Modem Status     UP
DownStream Connection Speed     13120 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed     812 kbps
VPI     8
VCI     35

 Note it says Network Type: RFC2684, which Google tells me is "Multiprotocol Encapsulation over ATM Adaptation Layer".  HOWEVER, the 'ADSL Line Status' page shows a dropdown under "Protocol" with "PPPoE Bridging" selected - and the only other two options are "PPPoA Bridging" and "RFC2684" bridging.  The diagnostics page agrees, it shows a dropdown box for 'Select Internet connection' which has "pppoe_8_35_1" as the only available connection listed.

 Also, the "LAN IP Setup" page has a control for "DHCP Server" which is set to 'on' AND greyed out.

 So in summary - I'm not sure which sort of connection I've got, and the modem seems to think it's bridging (but the username/password for the account definitely needs to be set in the modem and definitely does not need to be in the router) AND there appears to be no way to turn off DHCP on the modem side.   But on the other hand, as a reminder, I've gotten the same behavior out of this Netgear router at another site, different provider and modem (but same type of DLink router working there normally).  Did not take time to check modem settings while I was there, but could eventually get back to do so.
 

Tallon41:

bmscott:

Wikipedia says it's mainly offered in New Zealand and Europe.

OK....and you are where?  Your modem is an ASDL2+ which is also used in those places

 I'm in Australia.  But I lived in California 'til last year, and my DLink router has crossed 4 ISPs and 2 hemispheres without needing any settings changed - this is one reason why I'm apparently so unprepared to deal with this Netgear problem...

 (and hey NewEgg, we miss you down under - having friends forward packages isn't the same, quit screwing around with the Canadians and open up a warehouse in Australia!!)
 

bmscott:

So in summary - I'm not sure which sort of connection I've got, and the modem seems to think it's bridging (but the username/password for the account definitely needs to be set in the modem and definitely does not need to be in the router) AND there appears to be no way to turn off DHCP on the modem side.   But on the other hand, as a reminder, I've gotten the same behavior out of this Netgear router at another site, different provider and modem (but same type of DLink router working there normally).  Did not take time to check modem settings while I was there, but could eventually get back to do so.

you might want to check-out the "other" Routers you have that do work.  See if they are PPPoA capable, and if they are, that likely is why they are working....if not,

bmscott:

 I'm in Australia. 

ah. you should also have a 2+ modem then.

The only thing left, [before dealing directly with Netgear,] would be to use a subnet mask of  255.255.0.0 in the Modem LAN, and the Router LAN.  At that point you could log into to the Modem from anywhere in you network, and not have to disconnect and connect directly to the modem.

just to be clear, there are no entries in "block services" ?   and  Is UPnP enabled ?

your Netgear is different from every other one I've encountered, there is no "diagnostic" link [per your manual] on the main menu, [usually it's in the Maintenance section] whereby you can test the internet connection at the Router (ping, traceroute, some have nslookup also.)  This is useful to determine if the problem is in front of the Router, or behind it.  If the Router was able to ping and traceroute, then the issue lies with a firewall perhaps or something else; but it would most definately NOT be a Modem problem.

Tallon41

[on the basis of the lack of a "diagnostics" link alone, I advise you to NOT use that Router.  This would handicap your ability to troubleshoot any future internet connection problems....much as it is now.]

 

 

To update everyone (I know thousands have been on the edges of their Aerons...) -

Once I confirmed that I could, if necessary, turn off DHCP on the Netgear router and plug it into another wired router to get the wireless-bridge functionality, I decided that was a good enough backup plan and took the long drive out to the customer's house. 

 Of course, the Netgear worked as soon as I plugged it into their ADSL modem (in this case, a DLink model) - exactly how I expect a router to work, no muss or fuss - setup was quick and painless on all fronts, didn't need any backup plan or workaround.  Got wireless access with WEP passphrase and everything.

Still no idea why it wouldn't work for me, or at my mother-in-law's place either.  Don't care any more.  Thanks again for all your efforts to help - I learned a lot, or at least I think I did!
 

glad it's working for you......a head-scratcher to be sure !

LOL